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"Tiger and Crane Double Form" (Fu Hok Seung Ying): Step by Step Analysis
October 18, 2014
6:23 AM
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Pavel Macek Sifu
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Back in the old days of Southern Fist Online Forum (down for a long time) we run a highly interesting thread, analysing the fundamental set of Hung Kyun, "Taming of the Tiger in Gung Pattern" (Gung Ji Fuk Fu Kyun).

Since that time, we all got more experienced, so it might be a good idea to restart it sometime in the future.

However, for time being, let's start with another of "Three Treasures", "Tiger and Crane Double Form" (Fu Hok Seung Ying) and it's step by step analysis.

I will always post a relevant drawing form the original book with the number of the drawing, and we can discuss the technique, prinicples, application, etc. Let's go!

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October 18, 2014
6:45 AM
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Pavel Macek Sifu
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#1

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October 18, 2014
11:13 AM
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Douglas
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That looks to me like the Geng Li or the salute at the start.  As I have been taught this starts in the pocket at your hip after you have stepped forward into a twisting stance (tao ma) pulling your right fist to your hip and covering it with your left palm strike.  You then grab the attackers arm who is either striking or has grabbed your right wrist.  As you push is out you are pushing/twisting the arm away and striking with your right fist and stepping into (cat stance) dui ma.

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Douglas Elmes
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http://www.hungkuenkungfu.com/hung-kuen/

October 18, 2014
5:00 PM
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Pavel Macek Sifu
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Yes, "Gin Lai" - "Salute". And imho it should stay this way. I have seen so many really, really weird nonsense application for the "Salute", and I didn't like any of them, or they wer quite different from the execution in the set.

Courtesy is a practicla skill :-)

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October 19, 2014
3:08 AM
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TenTigers
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(looks around and with a look of total surprise.."whoa, where'd that come from?")
hey..it just so happens, I have a video on this! 

to the mods-if you have any issues or rules against posting videos, I have no problem with you having to delete this.

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October 19, 2014
3:49 AM
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Douglas
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That video covered pretty much what I have been taught are the various applications that surround the geng li.

 

PS.  Good to see TenTigers is here.  I've can't count the number of various forum posts I have seen of yours.

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Douglas Elmes
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http://www.hungkuenkungfu.com/hung-kuen/

October 19, 2014
6:31 AM
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Pavel Macek Sifu
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TT, you are most welcomed to the forum, as well as posting the videos!

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October 21, 2014
8:33 PM
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火星羊
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Maybe a small aside, but I notice that in many older images, "cat stances" are not as we tend to do them today. In this specific case, compared to the drawing of Lam Sai Wing, I have always been taught to do this salute in a lower stance, with the front knee much more bent and with the toes of the front foot clearly only just touching the ground. This also results in the body being less upright and more crouched over.

http://practicalhungkyun.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/hung-ga-kyun-grand-master-dang-fong-02.jpgImage Enlarger http://www.kungfubrothers.com/sitebuilder/images/leungwinghung-139x202.jpgImage Enlarger

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October 22, 2014
8:39 AM
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Pavel Macek Sifu
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My friend Charris van't Slot Sifu told be that he has heard that Lam Sai Wing suffered inguinal hernia, so his "Salute" stance in the Gung Ji Fuk Fuk photo edition has the foot turned out, just like on the drawing above.

However:

  • The drawing from FHSYK is older
  • In some Diu Geu Ma stances, he has standard stance; in other instances (like "Single Tiger Emerges from Cave"), he has the foot turned out as well, just like Grand Master Dang Fong in the photo above, and as my Si Hing Michael Goodwin Sifu has shown me, it has combative function.

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October 23, 2014
12:14 AM
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Don
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Great idea - loved it when Gung Gee was done on the old forum.

Thank you.

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October 27, 2014
11:06 AM
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Pavel Macek Sifu
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Here we go

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October 27, 2014
6:20 PM
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火星羊
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An opportunity to stand up properly with good posture. No slouching...

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October 27, 2014
8:48 PM
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Pavel Macek Sifu
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Yes, and more! More importand pattern than it seems to be. I will add my 2 cents later.

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October 28, 2014
8:40 AM
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Pavel Macek Sifu
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Postural benefits are obvious - weight distribution, pelvis (pelvic floor and diaphragm) alingement, spine and top of the head - keys to proper breathing and movement (!). That is why the classic of "Tiger and Crane Double Form" speaks about sinking the Hei to Daan Tin, top of the head supporting the weight of thousand pounds etc.

But that is not all. The old Masters say: “Ears and eyes have to be alert and quiet like a maiden’s“. (Yes, this saying is taken form the #2 posture of FHSYK)

Check out this article for context

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November 5, 2014
2:54 PM
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Pavel Macek Sifu
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJYGHDzmHY8#t=485

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November 8, 2014
11:39 AM
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Jason_1
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To the last drawing: As profane as it seems it is also two striking elbows to the rear :)

That reminds me on how I thought in the beginnings when learning a technique and thinking that I now knew the technique, when later as I progressed I resolved that there´s seldom just one technique with one application rather than one technique that can be applied to different situations and become a different character then dependent of it. One of the many interesting aspects of kung fu training.

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November 8, 2014
6:49 PM
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Pavel Macek Sifu
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That is right - Chinese Masters say Chin Bin Maan Fa, ie. "Thousand Changes, Ten Thousand Variations". So called Saan Sau Bin Fa (Application Drills and Variations) are one of the most important training methods. in our PHK :-)

Welcome to the forum!

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November 9, 2014
10:02 AM
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Douglas
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That is one of the things I have always loved about my sets over the years.  Whilst initially I might focus on one move and think "that strike is what this movement is all about", later after talking with Sifu, or even thinking about it I will come to realise that the strike is frequently secondary to how you are sitting, and you intent.  Every time I get Sifu to help review Gung Gee Fuk Fu for me I learn something new and deeper than before.

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Douglas Elmes
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November 9, 2014
10:18 AM
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Pavel Macek Sifu
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#3

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