"Five Elements Set" (Ng Hang Kyun) Practiced as a Separate Set? | PHK Insider Forum | Forum

201,229 total views, 177 views today

email

Avatar

Please consider registering
guest

sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register

Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search

— Forum Scope —




— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

sp_Feed Topic RSS sp_TopicIcon
"Five Elements Set" (Ng Hang Kyun) Practiced as a Separate Set?
October 17, 2014
11:49 AM
Avatar
Pavel Macek Sifu
Prague, Czech Republic, Europe
Moderator
Insiders

Members

Guests

Moderators
Forum Posts: 31
Member Since:
October 17, 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Various old articles and texts, speak about "Five Animals" and "Five Elements" set, just as they were 2 separate sets.

Here is a video of one of the versions I have found:

The first (stationary) part is basically "Arrow Palm" (Jin Jeung) + "Taming of the Tiger in Gung Pattern" (Gung Ji Fuk Fu Kyun).

The second part is the "Five Elements" part of today's commonly practiced "Ten Forms Set" (Sap Ying Kyun).

Do you have any reliable info about "Five Elements Set" (Ng Hang Kyun) being practiced as separate set?

201,230 total views, 178 views today

email
October 17, 2014
6:05 PM
Avatar
火星羊
Member
Insiders

Members

Guests
Forum Posts: 5
Member Since:
October 17, 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Here are two videos of a Hung Gar Five Elements Fist (五行拳) practiced in Singapore:

201,231 total views, 179 views today

email
October 17, 2014
6:16 PM
Avatar
Pavel Macek Sifu
Prague, Czech Republic, Europe
Moderator
Insiders

Members

Guests

Moderators
Forum Posts: 31
Member Since:
October 17, 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Interesting, thank you!

The "Elemental" techniques seem to be pretty the same in all various sets. That makes me wonder, if there was any Five Elements "set" per se.

Same goes for "Five Animals" - most of the lineages have same techniques, but different sets. Most of sets were probably made up just recently - in Wong Fei Hung's time and definitely before, it was probably just a "set" of individual techniques and combinations.

201,232 total views, 180 views today

email
October 17, 2014
6:35 PM
Avatar
火星羊
Member
Insiders

Members

Guests
Forum Posts: 5
Member Since:
October 17, 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I think I agree. I have practiced a family style of Hung Gar which comes from a lineage not including Wong Fei Hung and Lam Sai Wing, but apparently goes back to Hung Hei Goon. This Hung Gar has 5 short sets, one for each of the 5 animals. Many of the techniques are same or similar as ones found in the Tiger and Crane Double Fist set and 5 Animals 5 Elements Fist set. I guess it is a similar phenomenon, this lineage probably had the same techniques but made different sets from them organized in a different way.

201,233 total views, 181 views today

email
October 18, 2014
7:59 PM
Avatar
Michael Goodwin Sifu
San Francisco, USA
New Member
Guests

Insiders

Members
Forum Posts: 2
Member Since:
February 19, 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I don't view Ng Hang Kyun/ "Five Elements Boxing" as originally having been a "set," per se, but rather, a relatively basic series of strikes and footwork, adapted from the long hand system, and added to Wong Feihung's pre-existing Ng Ying Kyun/ "Five Patterns (Animals) Boxing," thus creating the Ng Ying Ng Hang Sap Ying Kyun/ "Five Patterns (Animals), Five Elements, Ten Patterns Boxing Set," more simply referred to as, the Sap Ying Kyun/ "Ten Patterns Set." 

Then, because the resulting, overall set is rather long, requiring a minimum of five or ten minutes to complete, many practitioners prefer to adjust the presentation, then breaking down the larger set into performance pieces of approximately two minutes duration.

This accomplishes several things. First of all, even a performer who is skilled and in good shape, can create a more explosive performance, with a shorter set. Secondly, most competitions/ friendship demonstrations put a two-minute cap on performances. At competitions, any decent judge can rate a set performance in just a minute or two. A time cap helps move the divisions without wasting undue time. Thirdly, this "editing" process fosters creative expression, such as all the different variations of this "Five Elements Set" that we see. If "performance" is the desired goal, why always come out with "the same old thing?" Such editing offers an opportunity to "re-invent" oneself, and a guaranteed show-stopper, every time.

Those various old articles and texts, in my opinion, were written at time when "the training of sets" was in vogue, rather than so much training of San Sik/ "Separate Hands". Therefore, since the difference was not of particular value to the writer, he did not reflect this in his writing, and any "technique" (Kyun), was spoken of as a "set" (Kyun), and vice versa, with no differentiation made in the story, between the two.   

Finally, it is my understanding that, in the old days, if you were training with Wong Feihung or Lam Saiwing privately, whether "full program," or "just learning the set," if the master had an "extra technique" he wanted to teach you, that was not already in the set, he would "install" it somewhere, in your set, so that you could remember it. In this way, even if the student couldn't keep a more rigorous regular training schedule for some reason, it was then possible to simply review the "sets" you had learned, to stay in some kind of physical shape, and to more or less stay current, on all of your techniques. 

201,234 total views, 182 views today

email
October 19, 2014
3:00 AM
Avatar
TenTigers
Member
Insiders

Members

Guests
Forum Posts: 3
Member Since:
October 17, 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I believe Wan Chi-Ming (-> Chan Tai-Hing->Tang Fong) taught a separate Ng Hang set. Not sure if it was his personal innovation for his curriculum, or was passed down. 

201,235 total views, 183 views today

email
October 19, 2014
6:33 AM
Avatar
Pavel Macek Sifu
Prague, Czech Republic, Europe
Moderator
Insiders

Members

Guests

Moderators
Forum Posts: 31
Member Since:
October 17, 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

TenTigers said
I believe Wan Chi-Ming (-> Chan Tai-Hing->Tang Fong) taught a separate Ng Hang set. Not sure if it was his personal innovation for his curriculum, or was passed down. 

TT: Have you seen it? How did it look like?

201,236 total views, 184 views today

email
October 20, 2014
2:53 PM
Avatar
Pavel Macek Sifu
Prague, Czech Republic, Europe
Moderator
Insiders

Members

Guests

Moderators
Forum Posts: 31
Member Since:
October 17, 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Michael Si Hing, excellent commentary.

I personally think it was the same case for "5 Animals" - if you compare the general structure of Ng Ying Kyun among various families, it is quite different, but the sets always contain the same techniques and combinations.

201,237 total views, 185 views today

email
November 23, 2014
4:59 AM
Avatar
Michael Goodwin Sifu
San Francisco, USA
New Member
Guests

Insiders

Members
Forum Posts: 2
Member Since:
February 19, 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I've seen a set performed with the "Dragon" section first, followed directly by the "Five Elements." From there, the set finished just like the FHSYK and Sap Ying.

Now, while this might indicate the basis of an original set, as a transmission from Tit Kiusaam's student, Lam Fooksing, through Wong Feihung Sijo...

...it could also mean somebody knew Sap Ying Kyun, and simply "cut" four animals.

ConfusedLaugh

201,238 total views, 186 views today

email
January 5, 2015
10:31 PM
Avatar
christiano.sts@gmail.com
New Member
Members

Insiders

Guests
Forum Posts: 2
Member Since:
August 9, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Hi everybody.

I've learned a separated 5 elements set, can't say the correct origin.

Maybe I have it recorded, I shall search and upload to youtube and then share with you.

This set is interesting, since has unique techniques which can not be found in any other HG sets (the pillar sets, and the most common ones). The principles, of course, are the same, and the flavour is completely Ling Nam Hung Kuen.

Best regards.

201,239 total views, 187 views today

email

Mr. Christiano
Hung Kuen player since 86.
ranked in Yang TaiJiQuan; HungTaoChoyMeiKa.
System Analyst.

January 6, 2015
6:38 AM
Avatar
Pavel Macek Sifu
Prague, Czech Republic, Europe
Moderator
Insiders

Members

Guests

Moderators
Forum Posts: 31
Member Since:
October 17, 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Welcome to the forum!

Yes please, upload the video if you find it, that would be nice.

201,240 total views, 188 views today

email
April 20, 2015
5:16 AM
Avatar
breslevy
New Member
Insiders

Members

Guests
Forum Posts: 2
Member Since:
April 20, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Hi guys, I'v learned a separate set that begins like sap yin, with the Dragon, then continues with the snake, leopard and then ends just like FHSYK.
only after that in our branch(Chan hon chung) we learn Sap Yin which begins the same but ends different. 
i can record and upload it if you like.

201,241 total views, 189 views today

email
April 22, 2015
12:09 PM
Avatar
Pavel Macek Sifu
Prague, Czech Republic, Europe
Moderator
Insiders

Members

Guests

Moderators
Forum Posts: 31
Member Since:
October 17, 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

breslevy, hello!

 

You are probably talking about "Five Animals Set" (Ng Ying Kyun). 

Yes, video would be awesome! 

201,242 total views, 190 views today

email
April 27, 2015
3:48 AM
Avatar
breslevy
New Member
Insiders

Members

Guests
Forum Posts: 2
Member Since:
April 20, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Yes, i am talking about Ng Ying Kyun.
i'll upload a videos as soon as possible. 

201,243 total views, 191 views today

email
June 22, 2015
3:57 PM
Avatar
chemicalshuen@hotmail.com
New Member
Members

Insiders

Guests
Forum Posts: 1
Member Since:
June 22, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

breslevy said
...the Dragon, then continues with the snake, leopard and then ends just like FHSYK...

we do "ng ying" and "ng hang" separately, but the order is dragon, snake, tiger,  leopard and crane, and the end ist not quite the same as FHSYK. Crane is a little bit shorter and the last moves are different.

(for the record, the order of "ng hang" in our school is metal, wood, water, fire, earth)

hire is an old vid of our "ng ying":

 

(but because it is on youtube since ages, i quess you saw that one)

but this one is a little bit shortened for the demo, at least half of dragon is missing there, and the crane is cut short too.

201,244 total views, 192 views today

email
November 2, 2015
4:41 PM
Avatar
christiano.sts@gmail.com
New Member
Members

Insiders

Guests
Forum Posts: 2
Member Since:
August 9, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Hello guys, I've just recorded a short version of the set.

The set is a little bigger, with more footwork, but I´ve resumed it just to show the flavour. well, I did it in my garage, so don´t expect a big show.

The full set contains some more 5 elements techniques very similar to what is found in Sap Ying Kuen, not exact the same, but the principles remain.

hung kuen ng hong kuen

 

Best regards.Wink

201,245 total views, 193 views today

email

Mr. Christiano
Hung Kuen player since 86.
ranked in Yang TaiJiQuan; HungTaoChoyMeiKa.
System Analyst.

Forum Timezone: UTC 2

Most Users Ever Online: 33

Currently Online:
1 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)

Top Posters:

Douglas: 9

Jason_1: 5

火星羊: 5

Don: 3

TenTigers: 3

christiano.sts@gmail.com: 2

Michael Goodwin Sifu: 2

FGaona: 2

Subitai: 2

breslevy: 2

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 0

Members: 594

Moderators: 1

Admins: 1

Forum Stats:

Groups: 1

Forums: 3

Topics: 14

Posts: 78

Newest Members:

rastouco, amidien, antonis, DavidLangford, ra_myers@yahoo.com, Kampallo, Wsweet, gbalchyk, Bwong924, kungpow77

Moderators: Pavel Macek Sifu: 31

Administrators: Practical Hung Kyun: 5

201,246 total views, 194 views today

email